Podcasting Lessons Learnt with Sarah Giffrow
This week on the show is Sarah Giffrow, sharing with us the lessons she learnt when she started a podcast in 2020.
Here are the things she learnt:
Be realistic with your time and consider what's happening in your life now.
Perfectionism holds you back.
Don't get caught up with the sound of your own voice!
PRO TIP: Try listening back to yourself every day to get used to the sound of your voice. Remember to be kind - NO JUDGEMENT!
There's a learning curve with new tech, especially editing tools.
PRO TIP: Do your own research and experiment with different tools to see which work for you best.
It might help to listen to a past episode I recorded about How to publish your podcast Just to get you started with your research!
Keep the format simple and let the conversation flow.
"Comparison is the road to abandoned projects." Sarah is 100% right here!
The comparison game is one I struggle with too and it DOES NOT HELP!!
Thanks, Sarah for sharing your experience!
About My Guest
Sarah’s path was set in the days of the Old Internet--she was raised in an unusually tech-savvy household, and she hand-coded her very first webpage in 1995.
Her online marketing studio, Upswept Creative, was born out of her side hustle as a photographer, where she often found herself seized by the irrepressible urge to help her photography clients improve their websites.
In her spare time, she can be found lifting heavy barbells, refereeing roller derby, cuddling her spicy meatball of a toddler, and giving all the pets to her extremely food-motivated tuxedo cat, Zergling.
Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn
If you have any questions or would like some help with your podcast, book a podcast enquiry call.
Can I ask a favour?
If you enjoyed the episode, I'd love it if you could leave me a review.
You can leave one here
Thanks so much!
I'd love to connect with you on social!
You can find me on:
Want to start a podcast, but not sure where to start? Download my free Podcast Playbook Get clear on your ideas!
Need some extra support? Book a 90-minute Podcast Strategy Session
Struggling with your podcast promotion? Grab my Easy-Peasy Podcast Promotion Checklist here!
Transcript
Hi, and welcome to Podcasting 1 0 1 with Rachel.
Rachael Botfield:This podcast is for busy female entrepreneurs who run their own
Rachael Botfield:businesses and want to start podcast or who may already have a podcast.
Rachael Botfield:I want to share practical information and tips on how you can.
Rachael Botfield:Podcast started and managing it along the way.
Rachael Botfield:I'll also be interviewing other female podcast hosts to give
Rachael Botfield:you real insight into what it's like having your own podcast.
Rachael Botfield:Hi, and welcome to this week's episode.
Rachael Botfield:Today I have Sarah gif Row, and she is coming to talk about some of the pitfalls
Rachael Botfield:or do's and don'ts about podcasting.
Rachael Botfield:And so to start with, Sarah, do you wanna just introduce yourself and
Rachael Botfield:let us know who you are and what you.
Sarah Giffrow:So, yeah, uh, my name's Sarah Giro, uh, and I am
Sarah Giffrow:the owner and creative director.
Sarah Giffrow:Uh, benevolent overlord, I like to say of Upswitch Creative.
Sarah Giffrow:I
Rachael Botfield:love that.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, and we do, uh, website, social media and email marketing for
Sarah Giffrow:established ethical and passionate small businesses and nonprofits.
Sarah Giffrow:So that's our main.
Rachael Botfield:Awesome.
Rachael Botfield:And so we are here to talk about, um, a podcast that isn't live anymore.
Rachael Botfield:It was one that you did a couple of, was it a couple of years
Sarah Giffrow:ago now?
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah, yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, yeah, it was a couple years ago.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, and this was, uh, this was a side project.
Sarah Giffrow:It was totally unrelated to my business.
Sarah Giffrow:Maybe it's kind of rare.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, but yeah, I started it in, uh, March of 2020.
Sarah Giffrow:It was called Mixed Metaphors, and it was centered around interviews with, uh,
Sarah Giffrow:mixed race folks, um, which I am one.
Sarah Giffrow:And so, um, and just the journey of, um, figuring out our identities
Sarah Giffrow:and how we take up space in various different spaces, whether they're.
Sarah Giffrow:White spaces or, you know, person of color spaces or, you
Sarah Giffrow:know, everything in between.
Sarah Giffrow:And just a lot of the, a lot of the, uh, stories around that.
Sarah Giffrow:So, um, oh yeah, and I got a lot of good feedback, uh, from the folks I talked to.
Sarah Giffrow:They, they were like, I'm so glad you're doing this, but, uh, I, I
Sarah Giffrow:definitely made some choices that made it more difficult than it needed to be,
Sarah Giffrow:which is why I'm no longer doing it.
Rachael Botfield:So let's start with, so it's a pa it was a passion project.
Rachael Botfield:What made you want to start it?
Rachael Botfield:Obviously March, 2020 was, was it pre covid or just as it hit, was
Rachael Botfield:like, was the idea percolating for a while pre kind of covid or,
Sarah Giffrow:yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, it was something I had had in mind for, uh, for, yeah, probably six months or
Sarah Giffrow:so prior to Covid and, and I think I had done a couple interviews at that point.
Sarah Giffrow:I was very much taking my time with it.
Sarah Giffrow:And then, and then, yeah, uh, COVID started and, and I was like, well, I
Sarah Giffrow:have all of this free time at home.
Sarah Giffrow:I can figure out this podcast thing.
Sarah Giffrow:Uh, yeah, it's, it seemed like a nice idea at the time, but, uh, but
Sarah Giffrow:yeah, I, I think that it was, uh, it was a mistake in the long run
Sarah Giffrow:because as the pandemic went on, Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:I, I think my capacity, I think a lot of people's capacity to just do
Sarah Giffrow:anything, uh, dropped precipitously.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, definitely.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:And I think that's, and I think that's something that's, is, that's a big thing
Sarah Giffrow:to consider when you were thinking about starting a project of this sort is.
Sarah Giffrow:You know, whether it's a pandemic or a major life event or even
Sarah Giffrow:just like a lot of small stuff that's draining your energy.
Sarah Giffrow:You have to really be real with yourself about your capacity and, and ask yourself,
Sarah Giffrow:you know, what are you gonna have to put aside in order to make room for this?
Sarah Giffrow:Cause it's gonna take time.
Sarah Giffrow:And, and, and that time has to come from somewhere.
Sarah Giffrow:So, and that country as.
Rachael Botfield:Absolutely.
Rachael Botfield:I'm a hundred percent agree with that.
Rachael Botfield:I think that that's kind of like one of the first questions, um, that I would
Rachael Botfield:say to somebody if they were thinking about starting a podcast, like say
Rachael Botfield:this kind of size of a project, be realistic with the amount of time that
Rachael Botfield:you have to, um, just to spend on it.
Rachael Botfield:And whether it then at that point, maybe depending on, you know, whether
Rachael Botfield:you have the funds spending, whether it's a passion project or, or for your.
Rachael Botfield:Um, whether you could outsource some of those parts or whether
Rachael Botfield:that's even an option for you, or making it in a way that, okay, I
Rachael Botfield:can't commit to weekly episodes.
Rachael Botfield:So let's start with monthly episodes.
Rachael Botfield:Or just having that knowledge so you can base it if you really
Rachael Botfield:want to do it in, into, into your, your work, your working life.
Rachael Botfield:But it, it is a big commitment whether you've got somebody helping you or
Rachael Botfield:not, you've still got to come up with those creative ideas around what you
Rachael Botfield:would like your episodes to be and the plumbing and, and the fact that it
Rachael Botfield:just takes time, recording and editing and all those other things that make,
Rachael Botfield:and then promoting it that make it.
Rachael Botfield:So what was the first kind of thing that you came across that maybe
Rachael Botfield:that you stumbled over or that you started to feel that maybe it was
Rachael Botfield:a bigger project than you thought,
Sarah Giffrow:or?
Sarah Giffrow:Well, the funny thing is, as far as the, as far as the promotional
Sarah Giffrow:side, I think that's where a lot of people would, would get hung up.
Sarah Giffrow:But given that, you know, I already had website skills and social
Sarah Giffrow:media experience, I, I felt.
Sarah Giffrow:I know how to, you know, I know how to set up the, the website and the podcast feed.
Sarah Giffrow:I already have a host.
Sarah Giffrow:I, I know how to promote things online.
Sarah Giffrow:And so that, that piece I kind of had in the bag, but I think a lot
Sarah Giffrow:of other folks wouldn't necessarily.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:But I think, uh, I think a lot of my, a lot of my issues stemmed from.
Sarah Giffrow:It stemmed from the desire to, to nitpick at myself, which I think we're
Sarah Giffrow:all a little guilty of that sometimes.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, but yeah, I would say don't spend a lot of time editing yourself.
Sarah Giffrow:This, I feel like you need to kind of brace yourself for
Sarah Giffrow:the sound of your own voice
Rachael Botfield:sometimes.
Rachael Botfield:Uh, yeah, I was talking, I did a post today about, um, perfectionism
Rachael Botfield:actually, cause it was making me.
Rachael Botfield:Um, the, like you're talking about, the sound of your own
Rachael Botfield:voice can be hard to hear.
Rachael Botfield:I, I still, um, don't always like the sound of my voice or how often
Rachael Botfield:I might say, um, or so, and, and when you listen to yourself quite
Rachael Botfield:a lot, you kind of see those things and you pick those things out.
Rachael Botfield:So you have to kind of try and put those things aside sometimes.
Rachael Botfield:If you let it get in your own head, it's very difficult when you
Rachael Botfield:are editing and you're listening to it over and over again.
Rachael Botfield:It kind of just becomes, oh no, I don't, I don't really feel comfortable with that.
Rachael Botfield:So that is something that, I mean, yeah, everyone with imposter
Rachael Botfield:syndrome as well, I think is a big, all those types of feelings.
Rachael Botfield:Was that, um, were you finding that hard?
Rachael Botfield:Like was that getting in your head when you were interviewing
Rachael Botfield:people as well, do you think?
Rachael Botfield:Or just kind of like at the editing?
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah, I think, um, I think less so during the interviews themselves.
Sarah Giffrow:I definitely thought about it, but, but yeah, it was definitely in the
Sarah Giffrow:editing stage where, you know, yeah, any sort of like, you know, vocal fry or
Sarah Giffrow:saying, um, or leg or any of that, it's.
Sarah Giffrow:It's gonna be a hundred times more grading when it's in your own voice.
Sarah Giffrow:Like your voice doesn't sound the same in, in your head as it does on a
Sarah Giffrow:recording, and it's just, it's so jarring.
Sarah Giffrow:You just, it's, it's like you kind of dissociate from it almost.
Sarah Giffrow:Like, that's not me.
Sarah Giffrow:I don't sound like
Rachael Botfield:that.
Rachael Botfield:Absolutely.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah.
Rachael Botfield:I, I definitely felt that I never, one tip that someone says is, is
Rachael Botfield:really listening to it over and out.
Rachael Botfield:By listening to it over and over again, you kind of get used to the
Rachael Botfield:sound of your own voice is one way.
Rachael Botfield:There's a guy that, um, Tom Dun hope, he was talking about video as well,
Rachael Botfield:about how we we're uncomfortable in a video about seeing ourselves.
Rachael Botfield:Um, but it's because we don't often see ourselves from that angle.
Rachael Botfield:Um, only when we look in a mirror we don't really think about it.
Rachael Botfield:So when you're like presented with this image of yourself, it's, it's
Rachael Botfield:kind of the same as the voice, as your.
Rachael Botfield:Um, and he kind of recommends like listening to yourself, um,
Rachael Botfield:to get used to the sound of your
Sarah Giffrow:own horse.
Sarah Giffrow:I definitely agree with that about video too.
Sarah Giffrow:There fan.
Sarah Giffrow:Uh, a few instances where edited video of myself and yeah, you're not, like,
Sarah Giffrow:you're not usually talking to yourself when you look in the mirror, so like, no.
Sarah Giffrow:When you're watching a video, it's like, what is my face doing right now?
Sarah Giffrow:It's, it's
Rachael Botfield:really out there.
Rachael Botfield:I get so distract.
Rachael Botfield:By my own face sometimes just like stick a post-it note over my own face.
Rachael Botfield:She's like, no, I don't wanna look like that.
Rachael Botfield:Why is that?
Rachael Botfield:But yeah, there are things that you, things that you do
Rachael Botfield:need to like get over that.
Rachael Botfield:So to get into the next, the next hurdle.
Rachael Botfield:So how did you find it from, I mean, you being a website designer, you are
Rachael Botfield:pretty tech savvy, you know, so did you find the process of editing fairly.
Sarah Giffrow:That's the thing is I don't think it was, and a lot of it
Sarah Giffrow:was just obsessing about those details.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, and yeah, there is a bit of learning curve with the, with the
Sarah Giffrow:different editing tools that, you know, I, I didn't, I didn't ever feel
Sarah Giffrow:like I really got the hang of it.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, so, so yeah, it's, it's definitely, um, it was definitely a learning
Sarah Giffrow:experience in, in that regard.
Rachael Botfield:What did you use for.
Rachael Botfield:Have interest.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:I, how was it called?
Sarah Giffrow:Oh, yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:I used Audacity
Rachael Botfield:a card.
Rachael Botfield:Oh yes.
Rachael Botfield:Yep.
Rachael Botfield:Yes.
Rachael Botfield:I'll use Audacity.
Rachael Botfield:That's what I use.
Rachael Botfield:I've, I've real life audacity.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, yeah, and I think this is also, I think it's kind of a pitfall of my
Sarah Giffrow:experience too, is that, well, my husband has a podcast called The Weird History.
Sarah Giffrow:Huh.
Sarah Giffrow:Podcast.
Sarah Giffrow:Okay.
Sarah Giffrow:We already had good equipment in the house, but then I, I was also like,
Sarah Giffrow:he uses Audacity as she use Audacity.
Sarah Giffrow:He hosts his feet on blueberry.
Sarah Giffrow:I should hosted on blueberry, and I was, and I don't know if those are
Sarah Giffrow:necessarily the right tools for me.
Sarah Giffrow:And I think I, I think, I wish I would've thought harder about that and maybe done a
Sarah Giffrow:bit more experimenting, um, just because.
Sarah Giffrow:I know from like the webs, the website worlds that, you know, they're like
Sarah Giffrow:different site editors and different tools and, and what's intuitive to one person
Sarah Giffrow:is not gonna be intuitive to another.
Sarah Giffrow:So, um, I could have tried harder in researching editing software
Sarah Giffrow:to make sure I was using something that really worked for me.
Rachael Botfield:It's, there's a lot of information out there about
Rachael Botfield:different podcast hosts, uh, platforms.
Rachael Botfield:Um, and editing tools.
Rachael Botfield:So I know a lot of Mac users.
Rachael Botfield:I'm not a Mac user myself.
Rachael Botfield:I don't use f I'm Android, but, um, garage Band, um, apparent
Rachael Botfield:is really good for, for editing.
Rachael Botfield:A lot of people I know use that.
Rachael Botfield:Um, I used Audacity, but I have used that in the past.
Rachael Botfield:Years and years ago my degree, so I kind of had some familiarity with it.
Rachael Botfield:So, but you, there are some, I think even with an canal.
Rachael Botfield:So ANCA is the free platform that's slight linked with Spotify and, and
Rachael Botfield:I think there's like ALI two as well and you can edit, it'd edit in there.
Rachael Botfield:And I find those a little bit clunky to, to edit if you, depending on
Rachael Botfield:what type of editing you want to do.
Rachael Botfield:To make it simple.
Rachael Botfield:If you want to kind of put conversations on there that you don't wanna take too
Rachael Botfield:much out bar, maybe if there's like, you know, some, some interruption in
Rachael Botfield:the middle, you can click the ends.
Rachael Botfield:And some of them even have like, um, a, a sound processing thing where
Rachael Botfield:they'll do like a general thing for you, um, to make that easy and easier
Rachael Botfield:for you, which I think is great.
Rachael Botfield:If that's, if the, if the, and if you can have that all in one.
Rachael Botfield:And, and often that's a big barrier for people to, to starting and like
Rachael Botfield:say, you faced with this decision.
Rachael Botfield:I'm not sure what to do without.
Rachael Botfield:I mean, I spent lots of the time researching.
Rachael Botfield:I mean, mainly as well being a podcast manager, I wanted to see what, what
Rachael Botfield:was out there and what tension I could suggest to different clients and stuff.
Rachael Botfield:And then you start diving into all of that and you think, oh
Rachael Botfield:my gosh, like I'd not heard of blueberry when you mentioned that.
Rachael Botfield:So there are so many different ones out there with different functional.
Rachael Botfield:I'm not surprise you when the one that your husband had, because
Rachael Botfield:it's just, it's just like, well, it works for him, you know?
Rachael Botfield:And um, so I guess that's one kind of thing is making sure the, the tech
Rachael Botfield:works for you and exploring, maybe exploring anything you, couple of
Rachael Botfield:different options before you sell on one and getting some, some advice
Rachael Botfield:off, uh, a few different people.
Rachael Botfield:So what, what, any other things, what other things did you find that any of
Rachael Botfield:the problems that you kind of came.
Sarah Giffrow:I think I had a fair amount of overthinking at play as well.
Sarah Giffrow:I, so I, I definitely overthought format and it's really going to be
Sarah Giffrow:better to keep it simple at the outset.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, so because my podcast was centered around interviews with mixed race, I
Sarah Giffrow:mean, I totally could have just recorded our conversation and posted it to the
Sarah Giffrow:feed and voila out there, but mm-hmm.
Sarah Giffrow:I don't know.
Sarah Giffrow:I was probably listening the too much, 99% invisible or this
Sarah Giffrow:American Life for whatever.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, and I, I just came in with this like really grandiose vision of
Sarah Giffrow:storytelling and I'd be like, narrating like Roman Mars and sending Oh really?
Sarah Giffrow:Oh wow.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:And it, it just added so much complexity that I didn't anticipate.
Sarah Giffrow:So, you know, that turned into like hours and hours of tedious editing
Sarah Giffrow:and like splicing clips together.
Sarah Giffrow:And, and I, I absolutely hated it.
Sarah Giffrow:And it's probably the major reason I let go of the project is, is that, yeah,
Sarah Giffrow:I just, I was expecting way too much out of myself, right out of the gate.
Sarah Giffrow:You know, a lot of those, a lot of those, um, really well known podcasts, you
Sarah Giffrow:know, they have entire teams behind them.
Sarah Giffrow:They have, yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:They have people doing their research.
Sarah Giffrow:They got the sound engineers and editors and their entire job to do that one piece.
Sarah Giffrow:And so expecting all
Rachael Botfield:that wire.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah.
Rachael Botfield:All the hearts doing every Yeah.
Rachael Botfield:They've got a massive production team.
Rachael Botfield:Producers.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah.
Rachael Botfield:Everyth.
Rachael Botfield:Everybody there.
Rachael Botfield:So what was the format then?
Rachael Botfield:So you had the conversations with the, with the different folks that
Rachael Botfield:you had on, and then what did you, what bits were you narrating over?
Rachael Botfield:I'm just interested to see how you kind of came up with
Rachael Botfield:that, um, type of, uh, format.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, I essentially did the, I like had questions that I would ask them and, and I
Sarah Giffrow:would sort of look for the story in there.
Sarah Giffrow:I mean, I really, I was really focused on.
Sarah Giffrow:Creating a space where they could just talk about what spoke to them.
Sarah Giffrow:And I just held space for them and listened.
Sarah Giffrow:And so it's, oh yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:It wasn't so much like a back and forth of like, of us having
Sarah Giffrow:a conversation necessarily.
Sarah Giffrow:I was just, I was more just like listening to and looking for the story.
Sarah Giffrow:And so I would, I would like put the pieces together in a way that made
Sarah Giffrow:sense and, and then, You have a little, you have a little bit of context.
Sarah Giffrow:So
Rachael Botfield:the episode would be more of them with Aroy telling
Rachael Botfield:their story, not like a, not like a question kind of answered kind of thing.
Rachael Botfield:And then, um, have you doing the mill parts in there?
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, that's really, you should, you should try.
Rachael Botfield:Um, I know you said it might not be available anymore before
Rachael Botfield:we hit record, but it would be really interesting to, to listen.
Rachael Botfield:To the podcast as well.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah.
Rachael Botfield:Um, just to see that type, that's not something that I, I guess the
Rachael Botfield:type of podcast that I've created is, is not the same as the type of
Rachael Botfield:like, what the idea of the concept of the idea that you wanted to do.
Rachael Botfield:If you could like, redo it again.
Rachael Botfield:Like, like what things, how would you like to see the format now to make it,
Rachael Botfield:to still get across what you want to get across in your podcast, but make
Rachael Botfield:it easier for yourself so that you.
Rachael Botfield:Continue to get back content out there.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah, I think that, I think I would definitely start with just having
Sarah Giffrow:a more or organic format to my interviews and interviewing people is, is a skill.
Sarah Giffrow:It's more of a skill and I think people realize sometimes and mm-hmm.
Sarah Giffrow:And yeah, I think, I think I would want to have it be more conversational.
Sarah Giffrow:I think I had a.
Sarah Giffrow:Due to the, due to the nature of like the subject matter, I, I had a certain
Sarah Giffrow:amount of hesitance about taking up too much space in, in the interview.
Sarah Giffrow:And, and so I think, uh, I think that would be, that was something too, uh,
Sarah Giffrow:that I needed to get over myself about.
Sarah Giffrow:Mm-hmm.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, oh yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:I, I think that's, yeah, having a more organic conversational flow.
Sarah Giffrow:Make would really trickle down and make everything simpler.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, it would make the editing go more quickly and, and yeah, it would be
Sarah Giffrow:able to actually stick to a schedule and not go overwhelmed at audits.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, and it would be, it would be very tempting to, uh, hire someone
Sarah Giffrow:to handle the editing for me.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, if it ever got, if I ever got to a point where I felt like that
Sarah Giffrow:was in the realm of possibility.
Sarah Giffrow:But yeah, as a, as a passion project, it's, you often just feel the Oh, yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Out.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, absolutely.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah.
Rachael Botfield:It's, yeah, as a passion project, it's not, um, something that you
Rachael Botfield:can, it's a lot of money to spend on something that's a passion project.
Rachael Botfield:But do you, do you feel, do you feel, um, that you'd still be able
Rachael Botfield:to get across, um, what you wanted to achieve with your podcast if
Rachael Botfield:you had the conversational side of.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, I think
Sarah Giffrow:so.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, because the, I mean, I was focusing on a group of people of which I am a
Sarah Giffrow:member, so, um, but yeah, I think, um, I think that a lot of, I think a lot of
Sarah Giffrow:the themes would still come through and I would just, yeah, I would just need to
Sarah Giffrow:get more comfortable with interviewing.
Sarah Giffrow:Having that conversation so that I don't feel like I need
Sarah Giffrow:to spend hours and days out,
Rachael Botfield:down.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, it's, it is hard with interviewing and, and you're
Rachael Botfield:right, it is, it is a skill.
Rachael Botfield:And I got inside.
Rachael Botfield:I wasn't, um, having the same kind of conversations that you,
Rachael Botfield:that you were having in your podcast, but I still felt a bit.
Rachael Botfield:Awkward.
Rachael Botfield:And I did look at it like, like a bit more of an interview.
Rachael Botfield:Um, my first podcast was, um, into different virtual assistants and
Rachael Botfield:learning about their journey and how they got from where they were to
Rachael Botfield:where they were now and, and what's evolved in their business and things.
Rachael Botfield:And I did keep looking at it more, it's more of a, it, it ends up being, it's more
Rachael Botfield:of a conversationalist, um, podcast and I, but I was looking at it like a, like
Rachael Botfield:an interview and that really kind of made.
Rachael Botfield:Really nervous about, um, doing the interviews.
Rachael Botfield:And I still do sometimes get inside my own head and sometimes I'm so focused
Rachael Botfield:on the questions that I wanna ask.
Rachael Botfield:I'm not, not really listening to what somebody's saying to
Rachael Botfield:be able to ask those questions.
Rachael Botfield:Um, that might just come up naturally in the conversation.
Rachael Botfield:Um, and that is some, this Janet Murray that I mentioned earlier, she talked
Rachael Botfield:about she, um, well she used to be a journalist as well, so she's got kind.
Rachael Botfield:But she was like more of a print journalist than an
Rachael Botfield:interview, um, journalist.
Rachael Botfield:And she was talking about getting some training, like interview training, and I,
Rachael Botfield:I'd never thought of that of a podcast, but actually depending on the subject,
Rachael Botfield:that the people that you are interviewing, having some kind of training and, um,
Rachael Botfield:really been able to, to, to listen to what they're saying and then think of
Rachael Botfield:other questions to ask rather than ones you'd already previously thought is,
Rachael Botfield:is a skill and would be something that could be, um, a really good investment.
Rachael Botfield:As well, couldn't it?
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah, I think so.
Sarah Giffrow:And, and, yeah, I definitely had a similar issue to you was just with
Sarah Giffrow:the whole thing of like, oh, I've gotta make sure I ask these questions.
Sarah Giffrow:And like, getting to the point like, especially because I'm like ADHD and
Sarah Giffrow:I will just like go off on a tangent if I let myself, so I, yeah, I think
Sarah Giffrow:getting like overly focused on like, these are the questions I have to ask.
Sarah Giffrow:It was hard to also like, hear what they were saying and, and
Sarah Giffrow:actually have the conversation.
Sarah Giffrow:So that's, that's a very real issue too.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, I totally get that.
Rachael Botfield:Would you feel more comfortable now doing, doing some interviews or
Rachael Botfield:conversationalists now, or what kind of things do you think you could do
Rachael Botfield:to help you feel more comfortable?
Rachael Botfield:Or would you be more comfortable?
Rachael Botfield:You know, having had that experience before and knowing kind of how you felt
Rachael Botfield:then, like what things would you maybe do differently in the future if you were
Sarah Giffrow:to do a podcast here?
Sarah Giffrow:Uh, I actually like the idea of interview training now that you've,
Sarah Giffrow:now that you've brought it up, I think that would've been a huge health.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, and it still would be.
Sarah Giffrow:Um, but yeah, I, I'm one of those people, crew.
Sarah Giffrow:A lot more comfortable in writing than I am in like verbalizing so, so the getting
Sarah Giffrow:into the overthinking space when I'm like having a conversation, it's just something
Sarah Giffrow:I do when I'm having normal conversations.
Sarah Giffrow:So yeah, having more of a framework around just like how to approach interviews
Sarah Giffrow:would be massively helpful and or that's definitely something I would wanna look
Rachael Botfield:at doing.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, it's something that I thought about as well.
Rachael Botfield:Thought it would just be a really valuable skill to, to work on and also help with
Rachael Botfield:your, could help with like, not that I do a lot of presenting or speaking,
Rachael Botfield:but you know, there's a potential for doing that as well and or I dunno,
Rachael Botfield:if you end up getting on a paddle somewhere at a conference or something
Rachael Botfield:like that, those kind of skills would, would come in handy there as well.
Sarah Giffrow:But yeah, I think I would feel more comfortable just
Sarah Giffrow:having done it once and and experienced all of these various ups and downs.
Sarah Giffrow:That's the cool part of mistakes is that you can learn from them and do
Sarah Giffrow:things differently the next time.
Sarah Giffrow:So I feel like if I were to try it again, it would go a lot
Sarah Giffrow:more
Rachael Botfield:smoothly.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, well you, you're not kind of, you're not starting from square
Rachael Botfield:one like previously you, you, you didn't, cuz you don't know what
Rachael Botfield:you don't know really, do you?
Rachael Botfield:So yeah, you've made the mistakes and you know, but I think it is important.
Rachael Botfield:Make those mistakes cuz you'll never learn or get that experience.
Rachael Botfield:And if you don't just start, you could pontificate, uh, forever about what
Rachael Botfield:I was saying about perfectionism, about not starting the podcast or not
Rachael Botfield:letting it out there cuz it's not.
Rachael Botfield:I had this as well with both mine.
Rachael Botfield:I was like, oh, who's gonna listen?
Rachael Botfield:And I don't know whether like, what I sound like is alright
Rachael Botfield:or if I, I just say, okay.
Rachael Botfield:But until you kind of do it, you are not gonna know.
Rachael Botfield:And that's, we all learned by doing.
Rachael Botfield:We all didn't like walk as a toddler, like straight away, didn't not
Rachael Botfield:stumble over or anything like that.
Rachael Botfield:As you keep trying again to get it done, so at least you'll know you've got that
Rachael Botfield:experience under your belt and that if you were to go forward, you can draw on that.
Rachael Botfield:Was it, so there's no mistakes, you're just failing forward
Rachael Botfield:or something like that.
Rachael Botfield:Like, yeah, not, not failing forward, but you know, that kind of a sentiment.
Sarah Giffrow:I feel like the things that, the things that have come to
Sarah Giffrow:my mind and just like thinking back on this are like, are one that done
Sarah Giffrow:is better than perfect and Yep.
Sarah Giffrow:And I think the other thing is that like a lot of people like to say
Sarah Giffrow:comparison is the thief of joy.
Sarah Giffrow:And I feel like, I feel like it's also like comparison is
Sarah Giffrow:the road to abandon projects.
Sarah Giffrow:Is just thinking too much about what other people doing and, and it sort of sucks
Sarah Giffrow:the joy out of it for you, so Oh yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Definitely better to just do it and see what happens.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, definitely That comparison game Oh, is, is, uh, I often
Rachael Botfield:find myself sucked down that comparison game, and even earlier this year I
Rachael Botfield:was trying to kind of like think about my business more strategically, like.
Rachael Botfield:Comparing myself constantly to other things or outside influences or
Rachael Botfield:someone that's got like, you know, 10 more, 10 more years experiencing me.
Rachael Botfield:It's like you've given yourself that hard time thinking that you should
Rachael Botfield:know all that stuff and that you should get it perfect the first time around
Rachael Botfield:because you know about their mistakes and obviously they would never have got
Rachael Botfield:that had they not made similar things.
Rachael Botfield:But yeah, you can get a bit, well I can get a bit paralyzed by that.
Rachael Botfield:Um, and then trying to think of, um, I did some C B T last.
Rachael Botfield:And I had some, uh, kind of like different exercises to do.
Rachael Botfield:A lot of my problems.
Rachael Botfield:It was overthinking, um, like stress caused by overthinking.
Rachael Botfield:So some of the tools that she gave me, I use in my business as well
Rachael Botfield:to help me when I am overthinking.
Rachael Botfield:I've got like a worry tree and like thinking about like,
Rachael Botfield:can I do anything about it?
Rachael Botfield:They know so okay, park, it's all this and they've really helped me.
Rachael Botfield:While I do have those kind of.
Rachael Botfield:You know, day to day things in my s where I end up feeling like, oh, I
Rachael Botfield:can't do this, or I can't do that.
Rachael Botfield:So those kind of exercises have really helped try and get over that
Rachael Botfield:or stop the, uh, overthinking because you, your brain just goes like
Rachael Botfield:million miles an hour, doesn't it?
Rachael Botfield:And then,
Sarah Giffrow:yeah, yeah, it does.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:I, and something that, something that has like been really illuminating from time
Sarah Giffrow:to time is like if you're listening to someone, Podcast when you're like looking
Sarah Giffrow:at their art or whatever and you're thinking, oh my God, they're so amazing.
Sarah Giffrow:Like, go like way back to like episode one or version one or, or like the very
Sarah Giffrow:first comic strip they drew or whatever.
Sarah Giffrow:And you, it just like, it looks totally different.
Sarah Giffrow:It sounds totally different.
Sarah Giffrow:Like you can sort of, if you go from like the beginning to now,
Sarah Giffrow:you can like see the difference in.
Sarah Giffrow:That comes through and then builds up as they get all of that experience.
Sarah Giffrow:So, you know, they were, yeah, they were starting from a much different place.
Rachael Botfield:Everything can evolve along with you.
Rachael Botfield:I've been saying this as well that, I mean, my podcast has evolved over
Rachael Botfield:time, and like I said before, but you don't know what you don't know, and
Rachael Botfield:I think that it's a great thing for your podcast to evolve with you as
Rachael Botfield:your experience and your knowledge.
Rachael Botfield:Your podcast is, and I'm sure if I listen back to that first
Rachael Botfield:interview I did for my first podcast, oh my gosh, I was so nervous.
Rachael Botfield:I remember thinking afterwards, I'm so sorry because this is so a bitch.
Rachael Botfield:Because I felt like he was really well bitched.
Rachael Botfield:I felt like I really got into my, like, have my questions and all of
Rachael Botfield:this come stuck into my head and I thought, you know, but then again,
Rachael Botfield:I, if I hadn't started doing it, you know, you won't be where you are now.
Rachael Botfield:So the moral of the story is don't give up.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah, try and work it.
Rachael Botfield:Start, yeah, just do it.
Rachael Botfield:Have you got anything else?
Rachael Botfield:Um, or any other advice maybe that you'd like to give to somebody
Rachael Botfield:who's, um, thinking about starting, um, a podcast or for their business
Rachael Botfield:or for a, as a passion project?
Rachael Botfield:Um, more
Sarah Giffrow:than anything, I would just say be like, do
Sarah Giffrow:your own thing, whatever it is.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Nobody is, nobody's gonna have your ideas, nobody's gonna
Sarah Giffrow:approach it exactly the way you do.
Sarah Giffrow:So just roll with that.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Just figure itself out.
Rachael Botfield:Yeah.
Rachael Botfield:I, I think, um, when I was starting my podcast, I knew there was another
Rachael Botfield:person, another lady, um, who was doing something similar to, and
Rachael Botfield:she thought her before me and.
Rachael Botfield:We'd met, and I knew her and I was worried that she was gonna think
Rachael Botfield:that I was copying her podcast and I really got into my own.
Rachael Botfield:But I remember somebody talking about, um, obviously there's a need for if
Rachael Botfield:some, if there's more than one podcast about something, because obviously
Rachael Botfield:there's more than one person in the world thinking or talking about that,
Rachael Botfield:that, but, um, particular subject.
Rachael Botfield:But you are gonna do it the way that you are gonna do it.
Rachael Botfield:Like you just said, it eats.
Rachael Botfield:Um, it's not gonna be the same as help podcast because I'm completely different
Rachael Botfield:to her and I'll do it in a different way.
Rachael Botfield:Um, but again, I suppose it's going back to that comparison game to
Rachael Botfield:um, not letting it get in your head and, and say be, um, do it with as
Rachael Botfield:much of you in there as as possible.
Sarah Giffrow:Yeah.
Sarah Giffrow:Yep.
Sarah Giffrow:Exactly.
Rachael Botfield:Great.
Rachael Botfield:Well thanks so much for coming on Sarah, and sharing your
Rachael Botfield:experience with podcasting and.
Rachael Botfield:Would love to listen to the podcast.
Rachael Botfield:If you can find it out or if you have a link or anything, I can
Rachael Botfield:pop a link in the show notes.
Rachael Botfield:Um, yeah, it'd be really exciting to, to have a listen to it and
Rachael Botfield:see How many episodes did you do?
Rachael Botfield:Out of interest, how many, how many did you do?
Rachael Botfield:I
Sarah Giffrow:did four.
Sarah Giffrow:Do you know that's, did a lot more than fired up
Rachael Botfield:but's.
Rachael Botfield:Still a lot more.
Rachael Botfield:I'm looking at some stats today actually.
Rachael Botfield:And that's still a lot more than a lot of podcasts.
Rachael Botfield:I only have one episode.
Rachael Botfield:But you started and you did it, so you still achieved four episodes.
Rachael Botfield:So I think that's really great.
Rachael Botfield:Anyway, did four.
Rachael Botfield:Thank you.
Sarah Giffrow:Appreciate that.
Rachael Botfield:Cool.
Rachael Botfield:Well thanks for coming on,
Sarah Giffrow:Sarah.
Sarah Giffrow:Catch up with you soon.
Sarah Giffrow:Thank you for having Thanks.
Sarah Giffrow:All right.
Sarah Giffrow:Take care.
Rachael Botfield:Thanks for listening to the show.
Rachael Botfield:If you'd like to connect with me or get in touch, then head on over to my website.
Rachael Botfield:If you like the episode, then I'd love it if you could leave me a
Rachael Botfield:review in your chosen podcast app.
Rachael Botfield:Your feedback is much appreciated.
